Sent this by my sister Susan Bordo, whose Substack "BordoLines" inspires me daily. A pleasure to find Persephone's tune, since I'm prepping my radio show for this week (Thursday, May 2, 10 am - 12 noon, "a Miniature World with host Binnie Klein")......Having just made a late-in-life foray into songwriting (gulp!) after decades as DJ, author and psychotherapist, I relate to much of what was said about the difficulties of the music industry, and also how to describe one's music, etc. I hope to connect with you, Persephone! www.inthesetrees.bandcamp.com
Thank you both, Eleanor and Mary! What most resonated with me (I am not looking to tour nor for an agent, and Eleanor was right that I'm pursuing multi-disclipinary arts, although I do not paint/draw!) is this:
1) Eleanor - I absolutely loved your visceral reaction! The people asking me are well-meaning, when you tell people you're a songwriter/recording artist they want to know "what type of music" and that's not an easy one when I don't consider myself a genre artist, I'm simply creating pieces which have to go where they go rather than follow a genre.
2) Mary - Dana Gioia's answer is absolutely exquisite. This describes my journey of discovery through music.....immersing myself in the sound and then taking the words and writing them to explore the visual arrangement of them. I've done this so much and for decades with Suzanne Vega, who I highly recommend for you to explore as a female songwriter who has at least as much if not more to say than Dylan and Cohen.....I have more favorites than I could possibly recommend, but "Penitent", "Song in Red and Gray", "Soap and Water", "Priscilla", and well, see? I can't pick.....the list goes on and on.....
Both of you inspired many ideas for me to explore, thank you so much for putting my question in the queue and thank you for continuing to share your stories and insights!
Persephone, A lovely answer for us both--and we so appreciate what you've written here. Go with your powerful instincts and keep pursuing your multi-disciplinary approach. We think it's working and wish you more and more success! xx ~
This isn’t a feeling, but what I first thought of with the phrase “a dozen long stemmed roses” was crinkly plastic, the powdered flower food I associate with my mom who always has some kind of flowers in a vase, cool dark green, and a general sense of expensiveness
Absolutely! A marvelous way to explain this. I say something quite like this in my course Lesson 15: https://marytabor.substack.com/p/how-poetry-means-part-two-of-lesson I would love to have your comments, so poetic and wistful, there too, but that post is one my "paid" ones. So glad we have found each other.
Anne, I have a bunch of prompts in the course. I'd love to have you read it. Your responses are remarkable -- a bunch of the posts are free! Do take a look and let me know.
For both the MacLeish images, I actually went to emotion rather than piling on association: wistfulness, the pleasing melancholy of liminal spaces in nature
"While riding on an elevator with an agent ... Eleanor pitched her novel and was picked up." This is hilarious. An elevator pitch in an actual elevator : ) BTW which elevator? That's about the only thing I haven't tried : )
I agree with you about the role of poetry in understanding good prose and imagery. In fact, the first fiction-writing course I took in college used John Frederick Nims's Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry as the textbook.
Mary, like the teacher you also are in addition to writer, the resources you offer up here to respond to the question are varied and full of possible assistance. I'm struck that Gioia, in his response to you on form in poetry, doesn't insist on established formal patterns:
"When poetry loses its ability to enchant and almost hypnotize the reader into an emotional bond with it, it loses the magic that great poetry needs."
Hear, hear.
And you provide the Hitchcockian master class in elevator pitches! Fabulous.
Addressing, I think a challenging question, you and Eleanor together really couldn't have offered a better response.
Sent this by my sister Susan Bordo, whose Substack "BordoLines" inspires me daily. A pleasure to find Persephone's tune, since I'm prepping my radio show for this week (Thursday, May 2, 10 am - 12 noon, "a Miniature World with host Binnie Klein")......Having just made a late-in-life foray into songwriting (gulp!) after decades as DJ, author and psychotherapist, I relate to much of what was said about the difficulties of the music industry, and also how to describe one's music, etc. I hope to connect with you, Persephone! www.inthesetrees.bandcamp.com
Thank you, my beautiful teacher!
I can't wait for us to get started again in our private sessions! xx ~ Mary
Agree, as I woke up with nightmares missing them!!!
Part of your multi-disciplinary approach! We'll get rid of the nightmares!
Thank you both, Eleanor and Mary! What most resonated with me (I am not looking to tour nor for an agent, and Eleanor was right that I'm pursuing multi-disclipinary arts, although I do not paint/draw!) is this:
1) Eleanor - I absolutely loved your visceral reaction! The people asking me are well-meaning, when you tell people you're a songwriter/recording artist they want to know "what type of music" and that's not an easy one when I don't consider myself a genre artist, I'm simply creating pieces which have to go where they go rather than follow a genre.
2) Mary - Dana Gioia's answer is absolutely exquisite. This describes my journey of discovery through music.....immersing myself in the sound and then taking the words and writing them to explore the visual arrangement of them. I've done this so much and for decades with Suzanne Vega, who I highly recommend for you to explore as a female songwriter who has at least as much if not more to say than Dylan and Cohen.....I have more favorites than I could possibly recommend, but "Penitent", "Song in Red and Gray", "Soap and Water", "Priscilla", and well, see? I can't pick.....the list goes on and on.....
Both of you inspired many ideas for me to explore, thank you so much for putting my question in the queue and thank you for continuing to share your stories and insights!
Hi Persephone, yes, a visceral reaction! Glad to hear you're inspired and wishing you joy on the journey.
Persephone, A lovely answer for us both--and we so appreciate what you've written here. Go with your powerful instincts and keep pursuing your multi-disciplinary approach. We think it's working and wish you more and more success! xx ~
This isn’t a feeling, but what I first thought of with the phrase “a dozen long stemmed roses” was crinkly plastic, the powdered flower food I associate with my mom who always has some kind of flowers in a vase, cool dark green, and a general sense of expensiveness
Your images in response make for poetry, Anne.
Thank you! This would be a fruitful prompt in itself, turning cliche images into fresh ones via association.
Absolutely! A marvelous way to explain this. I say something quite like this in my course Lesson 15: https://marytabor.substack.com/p/how-poetry-means-part-two-of-lesson I would love to have your comments, so poetic and wistful, there too, but that post is one my "paid" ones. So glad we have found each other.
Ah, excellent! I like the sound of that. (Gerard Manley Hopkins is one of my top poets!)
Anne, I have a bunch of prompts in the course. I'd love to have you read it. Your responses are remarkable -- a bunch of the posts are free! Do take a look and let me know.
Amazing, I definitely will!
For both the MacLeish images, I actually went to emotion rather than piling on association: wistfulness, the pleasing melancholy of liminal spaces in nature
I so agree and once again you hit the poetic center.
For the black cat it’s Halloween decorations for sure
Agree.
For the lion and the lamb, I think of the signature of CS Lewis and anodyne 20th century religious paintings
Such original responses, dear poet.
Thank you Mary!
"While riding on an elevator with an agent ... Eleanor pitched her novel and was picked up." This is hilarious. An elevator pitch in an actual elevator : ) BTW which elevator? That's about the only thing I haven't tried : )
Yes, hilarious. Read to the end for the Hitchcock story!
I watched the video and read the post with a great deal of interest. I wasn't aware that poets needed to pitch a collection. Much food for thought.
Thanks so for reading and commenting. One might argue that "pitching" poetry has little effect with agents. I must admit that I don't know.
My understanding has always been that the conventional wisdom says agents don't usually represent poets because there is no money to be made.
Yep. I suspect that's the case, and yet I think that poetry lies as the basis of my understanding of good prose and imagery.
I agree with you about the role of poetry in understanding good prose and imagery. In fact, the first fiction-writing course I took in college used John Frederick Nims's Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry as the textbook.
My shelves are packed with poetry. Reading now _Alive Together_ by Lisa Mueller.
I recently finished reading and reviewing two poetry collections by DeWitt Henry: Trim Reckonings and Restless for Words.
Mary, like the teacher you also are in addition to writer, the resources you offer up here to respond to the question are varied and full of possible assistance. I'm struck that Gioia, in his response to you on form in poetry, doesn't insist on established formal patterns:
"When poetry loses its ability to enchant and almost hypnotize the reader into an emotional bond with it, it loses the magic that great poetry needs."
Hear, hear.
And you provide the Hitchcockian master class in elevator pitches! Fabulous.
Addressing, I think a challenging question, you and Eleanor together really couldn't have offered a better response.
Such a generous comment, Jay. My thanks, as always.